| For 1063 by grace 5485 are ye 2075 saved 4982 through 1223 faith 4102; and 2532 that 5124 not 3756 of 1537 yourselves 5216: [it is] the gift 1435 of God 2316: (Ephesians 2:8) |
So, you think that you're saved?
Yes.
Okay. What was it that got you saved?
An act of God's grace (Ephesians 2:8).
Good answer. Why did God, in his grace, save you?
Because you put your faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:8).
Another good answer, but that was yesterday; what about today?
Once saved, always saved.
Really? I wonder if that's what the Israelites thought after God
saved them out of bondage in Egypt?
I will 1014 therefore 1161 put 5279 0 you 5209 in remembrance 5279 , though ye 5209 once 530 knew 1492 this 5124, how that 3754 the Lord 2962, having saved 4982 the people 2992 out of 1537 the land 1093 of Egypt 125, afterward 1208 destroyed 622 them that believed 4100 not 3361. (Jude v5)
It's the same word in both verses; #4982. The Israelites that came out of Egypt with Moses were "destroyed 622 " by God before they could enter the land of promise. How is it that God saved them in the first place?
They trusted God, and put the blood of the lamb on the lintels and door posts of their houses.
Good answer. They trusted God?
Yes.
How many of them trusted God?
All of them.
They all trusted God?
Yes.
Then why did God destroy them before they could obtain his promise? Jude verse five says that they were destroyed ("them that believed 4100 not 3361") because they didn't trust God.
Well, they all trusted God at first, but then they stopped trusting him.
So, at first they were saved, but later they weren't saved?
Yes. They were saved from Egypt when they trusted God, but then when they got to the promised land, they didn't trust God to deliver them from the giants in the land, so God destroyed them.
Okay. So, they quit trusting?
Yes.
How many of them stopped trusting God?
Everybody except Joshua and Caleb, and all the young people.
So, can that happen today? Can people who are "once saved" quit trusting God and lose their salvation?
So, can people lose their salvation if they quit trusting God today?
ReplyDeleteI believe so.
ReplyDeleteWe need to be clear about them deciding not to trust in the work of Christ on the cross. I think that if they make that choice, they are deciding to trust something else, and whatever that is certainly won't save them.
Thanks for the comment.
FINALLY someone says what I've been secretly thinking for years! We are saved by grace. Absolutely. We are still saved as we blunder through life sinning over and over again. A believer will want to repent of his sin of course but because of the cross we are forgiven none the less.
ReplyDeleteBut here's a scenario to reflect on..... Lets say that someone accepts Christ into his (or her, but I'll use "he" here) heart and does his best to live his life as Christ would have him live it. He believes with all his heart.
Years go by. Then something happens to him or a loved one that shakes his faith so badly that he questions the very existence of God. Instead of asking God for help he runs in the opposite direction, eventually renouncing God completely.
Is he still saved? I don't believe so.
Now wait! Most will say he didn't believe in the first place. I don't buy that. Of course only God really knows our hearts completely and only He can say for sure if our belief is sincere. But when that person renounced God he gave up his gift of salvation of his own free will. He no longer BELIEVES or TRUSTS God.
Is there no hope for this person? I believe that if he sincerely turns back to God and repents, Yahweh will welcome him back with open arms.
This is what I believe, as unpopular as it is.
I beleive that once salvation is obtained, solely by trusting in the shed blood of Christ, one cannot lose that.
ReplyDeleteJohn 10:28 says, "And I give them eternal life, and they WILL NEVER PERISH" It then goes on to say," and no one will snatch them out of my hand." Vs. 29, "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."
Christ says that we will never perish, so how is it that you can say we are able to lose our salvation?
Only one way; abandon it yourself.
ReplyDeleteNobody else can do it to you.
No sin you commit can overpower salvation.
But, determine that you don't want his free gift, throw it away yourself, and you won't have it anymore.
So when Jesus said,"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all...", what He actually meant was that His Father gave them to Him, but only conditionally?? That's like saying God's love is conditional.
ReplyDeleteMy knowledge of God's word is limited, but when I hear Jesus say, "no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand" I understand that to mean that God will not let us go.
You say that no sin we commit can overpower salvation, so are you saying that we as lowly humans can overpower salvation??
Jesus chose twelve.
ReplyDeleteI need to make another comment on this (I am anonymous on April 15th.
ReplyDeleteI am in complete agreement that God will not take our salvation from us. That is His promise and I believe all of His promises. But to spend eternity with Him as an UNBELIEVER doesn't make sense. If I trusted in Jesus and was a true believer but at some point in my life turned from and denied Him (and meant it), effectively choosing to throw away His gift, why would God want me in His holy Heaven with him?
I just realized I spelled "believer" wrong up above....ooops.
ReplyDeleteSomeone shared an illustration with me, and I just wanted to pass it along....I was born of my mother and father. They are my parents. No matter how I lead my life, no matter how far I stray away, no matter how much I tell them I disown them, they are and will always be my parents. When we trust in Christ's shed blood for our sins, we are "born again" and God is our Father. I believe that nothing will change that fact no matter how much I lose my way....afterall, I am still human.
great post! A couple of scriptures to back up what you say. Look at 1 Samuel 10:9-11 Samuel has a changed heart and receives the Spirit of God, sounds pretty saved to me. Then look at 1 Samuel 16:14 god withdraws His Spirit?
ReplyDeleteAlso take a look at Hebrews 6:4-6. These verses are talking about believers. those enlightened and having tasted of the heavenly gift, having partook in the Holy Spirit. when they turn away they are not renewed.
In response to JD, lets take your analogy a little farther. Let's say that you decide to leave your father's house, you refuse to enter even though the door is wide open, you choose instead to live in other houses with other father's, all the while you could go back into your father's house after all he is still your father, but you decide you hate your father and will never enter his house, in fact you deny that your father even lives in that house. Well, it is the same with our Heavenly Father. The door is open, but if you refuse to enter His kingdom at some point the door will close and those outside the kingdom will be destroyed.